Hunter, Sayers trade barbs over PD
By JIMMY GALVAN Managing Editor

JASPER POLICE CHIEF TODD HUNTER talks with councilman Randy Sayers during Monday's special meeting. Newsboy photo/Jimmy Galvan

Jasper Police Chief Todd Hunter defended his running of the police department to city council members during a special meeting Monday, Aug. 20.

Councilmen Randy Sayers and Joe Clyde Adams requested the specially called meeting after both had heard of problems the department was suffering in recent months. First-year councilman Sayers said he had heard complaints from 13 members of Hunter's staff.

"I was concerned about comments I was hearing about you," Sayers said to Hunter. "As a councilman I have a responsibility to the city, to the community and to the council members to bring any information to their attention that they need to know.

"I don't know you," Sayers said to Hunter. "We have never been socially active so this is nothing personal. The only time that we have ever met is during anything through city council. I feel we have a good group of police officers working in the city at the present time. It has come to my attention there are some serious problems in the city's police department. I am concerned about the morale in the department and I believe it is very low and I'm really afraid we are going to have a high turnover rate in the near future. I think a high turnover rate is going to cost a great deal of problems for the city."

The meeting grew tense at times between Sayers and Hunter as the councilmen became rather combative during his questioning of police chief. Other council members sat in silence as the two rattled off at each other for 30 minutes.

Sayers said the underlying complaints to him from the unnamed 13 members centered on four issues: 1. Concern over Hunter's ability to lead the department; 2. Don't trust Hunter; 3. Don't respect Hunter; 4. Looking for employment elsewhere as long as Hunter remained the police chief.

"Basically, do you realize you have these problems?" Sayers asked Hunter.

Hunter questioned whether Sayers had any written grievances from any of the anonymous 13 to which Sayers said he didn't.

"I had personal conversations with 13 members of your department," Sayers said.

Hunter first addressed the morale issue in blaming it on rumors and a lack of following proper business procedures.

"These people bypassed the basic grievance procedures that we have," Hunter said. "There is no business that is not going to have an issue with morale. It is up to me to make that decision to quell it. That's why I have a Lieutenant and Captain to assist me and we have addressed those issues."

Sayers: "How have you addressed those issues?"

Hunter: "First we had to find out what the issues were. You apparently knew before I did. No one has come to me. I haven't had a grievance or complaint filed. I have an open door policy. I did not have the personal opinion that you did that we were going that far south."

Hunter said the department has located some officers who have caused some dissention in the department.

"When I was asked to come in, I was asked to make some changes Mr. Sayers and you were not here at that time," Hunter said. "There has been a great amount of change that has occurred for the best. Those issues are not always easy for others to accept and there are those in the department that don't like it. That is where the cancer has begun. Change is not easy for some people. I have heard all the rumors as well. I can dispel them if you have some, and then go with it."

Sayers: "I am not going by rumors. I am going by conversations with your police department."

Hunter: "Well, I believe I am a leader. I believe that has been proven through Hurricane Rita and everything else. We have a lower crime rate today and a higher clearance rate than we ever had. Things are going forward and yes, there is a bump in the road but when that bump occurred, you should have sent them to me, Mr. Sayers. You should have asked them to come to me."

Sayers: "I did and they said on many occasions they did come to you and you didn't listen."

Hunter: "You violated the city charter by allowing them to talk to you and by calling them, which I know that you did."

Sayers: "How do you know what I did?"

Hunter: "Because they told me."

Sayers: "I didn't solicit them. They came to me. I didn't even know any problems existed."

Hunter: "There are some that are leaving for career changes and there are some that are retiring."

Sayers: "I'm just telling you what was reported. Thirteen members of your department came to me and this is what they came up with. I told them I would see what I could do."

Hunter: "When they came to you, you should have referred them back to me. We have a grievance procedure, an open door policy and a chain of command that was all bypassed. I have a Lt. that was bypassed. They didn't go to him with these things."

Lt. Gerald Hall said that he left for police school; he was informed of three members that were seeking other employment. He said when he came back he was informed of these issues and talked to Hunter about these issues.

"(Hunter) said he was going to back off and see if I could turn it around," Hall said.

Sayers: "So were you (Hunter) aware of this problem?"

Hunter: "Yes, I was aware. I wish we weren't at this bypass but I think this was coming. I told others in the community and even other council members that this was coming. We are going in a new direction and it's a much different direction than the police department was in before I got here. There are those who won't conform and if they chose to leave then that might be the best thing for this police department."

Sayers: "So a high turnover rate wouldn't be a bad thing for this department?"

Hunter: "We haven't had a high turnover rate and if we do, it's expected. I was brought into an agency that didn't have accountability. I was brought into an agency that had some issues. There is going to be turnover. It took two years but I am not someone that pushes and I'm not someone that is vindictive. There won't be 13 people to leave. There are those few that have caused a cancer among the other people and we're trying to defuse that. I can guarantee there won't be 13 people that leave. I want team players. I want people that are ethical and don't mind accountability and I want them to come on board and do a good job."

Hunter said two months ago, an issue came up when Hunter awarded the Chief's Award during the annual police banquet. According to Hunter, some officers were upset with who received the award. He said another issue came up when the department's investigative technician was sent to a police academy and her tuition was paid.

"They were also upset that they had to have a sergeant on every shift and it all goes back to accountability," Hunter said. "I'm very concerned with it and I do try to make adjustments but some of these things we can't change - they are going to be here. I have only been a chief for two years and we have made some great strides in this department. This undermines my very management. I have heard every rumor today, to 'they are going to fire me tonight' and they are going to do this or that and my guys over there have to follow me. And this right here will undermine my authority."

Sayers questioned why Hunter had not addressed council during the August meeting as Joe Clyde Adams had requested. Hunter said he was approached by two other members of council and asked to "let it go and it might die down."

Hunter: "I don't work on rumors. I work on facts."

Sayers: "Me neither. I don't work on rumors. I work on what was told to me. I wanted to know what your concerns were and if this was fixable."

Hunter: "Of course it is fixable, if we follow the right procedure and don't end up in this procedure. If you will give me the faith. I brought us here so far; I'm not going to fail now. My house is not for sale. I'm not leaving. I have already paid for the birth of my next child at this hospital. Unless you decide differently, I'm staying. I am tired of all the rumors and innuendos. We have enough to do than going through with that. These types of forums just fuel the fire. I don't believe you should have gone through 13 people before you called me. I never received a call from you with your concerns."

Hunter showed council members a pay structure that he put in place for officers at the department. He said this was done to boost morale and allow officers to see where their pay was heading in the future.

Hunter: "I don't work off of rumors and I don't get involved in that. I can promise you there will be a better morale there. If people will get positive, which sometimes tends to be a hard thing in this town, it will work. But you have to stand behind me."

Sayers: "So what you are saying is these 13 people are causing the problem?"

Hunter: "Bring these 13 forward. I am just getting it from you."

Sayers: "So, I'm making this up?"

Hunter: "I'm not saying that. I'm saying I deal with facts. Bring them forward and we will talk to them. We have done everything we can to talk to them."

Sayers: "I will encourage them to come forward."

Councilwoman Diane Pace and Gloria Monzingo both gave Hunter a voice of support on council before the meeting ended. Pace said she had received 17 phone calls since the agenda for the meeting was posted Friday, Aug. 17.

"I support what you are doing," Pace said. "I remember very well what we were dealing with before and the things that had to be fixed in this department. I find it kind of funny that these officers go to one councilman and I've seen four of them in the last month and not a word."

"I have had a steady stream of people saying positive things about you and I have not heard one negative thing about you," Monzingo said.